Vibe PMF and the Hidden Economics of Founder Conversations

Early-stage founders are doing something I jokingly call “Vibe PMF.”

PMF, or Product Market Fit, is one of the key measures of early-stage traction. Reaching it isn't easy, especially in a fast-changing field like cybersecurity. Reaching PMF requires deep focus on solving the right customer pain points at the right time. Unsurprisingly, this requires a lot of hypothesis testing and validation. If you do this right, customers will buy your product and tell others about it.

Vibe PMF is different.

Vibe PMF is not about testing product-market fit in the traditional sense. It’s about vibing your way into it. One unpaid expert call at a time.

There is a quiet tension in early-stage startup land that rarely gets called out:

Founders want advice. Experts give it freely. But somewhere between the first call and the tenth whiteboard session, the value exchange falls apart.

This isn’t a new problem, but it keeps coming up, especially among folks like myself who have been around long enough to spot the pattern. 

A friendly LinkedIn outreach. A “quick call.” A few positioning questions. Some market feedback. A handful of predictions. A few introductions. A helpful chat that quietly turns into a part-time advisory role... just without the title or pay.

A question came up in a group chat recently that captured it perfectly:

My answer:

I always push to get paid after that first conversation. Whether it's hourly or retainer depends on how much help they need. I prefer cash over equity so I can put that cash to use in other ways. The only time I position for equity over cash is if I'm investing directly into the company (but I still aim for a bit of cash if I'm advising).

And while I do angel invest, I don't say "yes" to just anyone.

Here's the kicker: once you introduce real commercial terms, many founders back away.

But it’s not personal. It’s structural.

Early-stage investors often advise founders not to pay early-stage advisors, especially those not directly driving revenue. Any non-revenue-driving expense is a burn risk (which, to be fair, makes a lot of sense).

Founders are told to avoid spending money on:

• Strategic insights

• Messaging feedback

• Buyer positioning

• Competitive research

• And anything else that doesn't tie directly to ARR.

The golden rule here is, unless you’re helping close deals, that help is “nice to have,” not “need to pay for.”

You can’t really fault them for taking that approach, either. Time is short, and markets are evolving rapidly. Not everyone they speak with can provide meaningful help, and revenue is always the top priority.

Even still, it creates a strange tension. Founders want insights to guide their company, but they often can't or won't pay for them.

They chat with enough credible people, capture enough half-formed insights, and triangulate toward a narrative they can pitch to investors and customers alike. That's Vibe PMF. It's lightweight, high-speed, and low-cost, and it can really work. For the companies.

But it’s a drain on the folks they’re learning from unless there is clarity and mutual agreement.

And it’s not just founders. VCs do this, too.

“Quick chats” turn into market intelligence. “Intro calls” turn into thesis validation. None of it paid. All of it valuable.

At Return on Security, I see this pattern constantly across cybersecurity startups, investors, and operators. These dynamics shape how the industry is built, which is why the right insight at the right time is so valuable.

So what’s the move?

Personally, I’m happy to give a 30-minute call to just about anyone. I like helping and learning how people think about problems and new markets. But if the conversation moves to whiteboarding, strategic input, or competitive positioning, I let everyone know that a commercial layer needs to be involved. Sometimes, that means hourly. Sometimes, a retainer. Always cash unless I’m directly investing.

To each their own, however. Equity has great upside potential if you can understand the math behind it. Cash remains king for many, but your view of these decisions depends on your finances, goals, and trust in the company. Choosing only equity means you’re betting on the company’s path, the team’s skills, and how much profit you’ll keep.

When you frame it like that, you quickly find out who is serious and who is just vibing. There’s no animosity in that. It’s just pattern recognition.

If you’re navigating this dynamic yourself, the key is to be honest and clear early. You’re not being difficult, you’re being professional and saving everyone a lot of time in the process.

The best founders and VCs? They get it. They want skin in the game from their advisors because they know advice is much more valuable when treated like the asset it is.

Stay frosty out there.

If you’ve seen this dynamic play out or lived it, I’d love to hear your take.